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Master Member
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I am trying to finish off the 2006/2007 accounts, but all that I seem to do is come up against bug after bug in MySF 
I have just done the end of year rollover (luckily making sure I have an unrolled copy to revert to in case of problems).
The rollover seemed to go OK. But then I went to generate the end of year reports and there are MAJOR ERRORS - and they are not just display problems with the report generator but some are actual transactual errors.
The main, and most obvious error is in the end of year share revaluation and writing to the increase in market value:
If I look at the "revaluations" report I can see that for all the shares I purchased by off-market transfer, the "Start Value" is given as the cost of the shares, as it is for the TLSCA installment receipts purchased by cheque. However all shares purchased on the ASX through Commsec show a "Start Value" of zero.
The "End Value" is correctly shown in all cases with the result that the "Difference" is correct for all the shares showing the cost as start value but for all the ASX purchases, the "Difference" is shown as the full market value of the shares on 30/06/2007.
Consequently I have an error in excess of $300k in the increase in market value. This also flows on to the balance sheet so that the fund assets are inflated by the error.
Interestingly, If I now do an asset listing summary for 30/06/2007 it correctly shows the cost for ALL assets. However the transaction reporter shows me that the actual end of year transaction posted is the WRONG inflated increase in market value.
I have double checked the original purchase transactions and the only difference I can see between the correctly processing OMTs and the ASX purchase giving the problem is that the ASX transactions have brokerage and so give 3 line transactions rather than the simple 2 line credit/debit of the OMTs.
I know the splitting of the purchase into price/brokerage lines should not make any difference - but the problem is clearly limited to the ASX purchases and that is the
only difference that I can think of.
The other problem is with the profit and loss statement, taking the 6 sections in turn:
Income: Seems OK
Expense: Seems OK
Profit/Loss: Seems OK until the "plus non assessable income" and therefore subsequent profit (see next)
Non-assessable Income: Lists ALL income, ie non-assessable income that SHOULD be included plus all the assessable income already listed under "Income" also has the WRONG value for 4210 Increase in Market Value.. as discussed above.
Non-deductible Expense: Lists ALL expense, which in my case was all deductible and already listed under "Expense"
However, the totals shown under Non-assessable Income & Non-deductible Expense do not reflect the figures listed above them.
For the Non-deductible Expense, the total is correctly shown as zero below a listing of three line items with costs that were incorrectly shown (having already been shown at "Expense"
Similarly for Non-assessable Income, although ALL income is listed, the total represents only the non-assessible component - though in error due to the increase in market value error.
What on earth is going on here?
I got this software because it was supposed to make all this stuff simple, reliable & accurate - I'm really starting to question the wisdom of that decision.
HELP please! I'm really running out of time here.
Neil H.
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MySF Administrator
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Last Login: 17/05/2010 6:31:15 PM
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Hi,
The change in market value for assets purchased in the current year is calculated as the difference between the cost of the asset and the market value at the end of the year. This is what happens regardless of whether your purchased it as an off-market transfer or via Commsec or any other method. In fact there is nowhere that you can distinguish between these so there is no reason why Commsec records would show different amounts to others.
With regards to the results that you are seeing in the profit and loss under non-assessable income and non-assessable expense, we will check these using the file that you provided recently and will comment on them as soon as we have more information.
Regards,
MySF
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Master Member
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"The change in market value for assets purchased in the current year is calculated as the difference between the cost of the asset and the market value at the end of the year. This is what happens regardless of whether your purchased it as an off-market transfer or via Commsec or any other method."
Yes, well, it IS doing this - the problem seems to be that the cost of the asset is not being picked up but shown as zero for the problem assets.
"In fact there is nowhere that you can distinguish between these so there is no reason why Commsec records would show different amounts to others."
Yes, I realise, logically, this is true - which is why I pointed out the only difference that I COULD see - ie that the MySF had split the problem transactions to show the main purchase component and the brokerage/GST component.
Again, I realise that LOGICALLY there should be no difference - but the fact is MySF IS reporting them differently.
However, the main purpose of this reply is that there MAY be another difference between how the transactions were processed - again, there is no logical reason why this should have any effect - but it may help in debugging.
It has just occurred to me that (if my memory is correct) all the problem Commsec purchases, being simple ASX purchases, were done using the "quick add financial assets" (in fact I believe they were all entered in one "quick add" session) whereas all the others (which seem to be reporting correctly) would have been entered using the individual add or manage assets/financial assets method (so that I could add individual memos as required).
Now I'm not 100% certain of that - but I'm fairly sure that's how I did it. So, yes, logically all the purchases should be treated the same - but the different entry method might be a pointer to why they are not being processed the same.
"With regards to the results that you are seeing in the profit and loss under non-assessable income and non-assessable expense, we will check these using the file that you provided recently and will comment on them as soon as we have more information."
OK, there may have been a couple more transactions entered after I sent you that file, before I did the rollover. But I would expect that if you do a rollover on the file you have, you should see the same problems.
With regard to the profit and loss, if I just look at my pre-rollover file then, obviously, I can't select profit & loss from the year end tab (since the year hasn't been finalised) and if I select profit and loss from the financial tab then the report does not have the same problem of listing assessable/deductible amounts in both categories.
To explore this further - I have gone back to the rolled over file and this problem appears to be on the year end reports only - if I select profit & loss under year end then there is the problem of listing assessable/deductible amounts in both categories - but if I select profit & loss under transactions then the report does not have the same problem of listing assessable/deductible amounts in both categories. Unfortunately, of course, you cannot use this version as a year end report as the information presented is not the same.
So, to summarise:
1) The problem with the profit and loss report seems to be limited to the year end report generated - so it may well be a problem with the report generator rather than the actual data. (though of course it WILL also show the real data error from 2).
2) The problem with the end of year rollover of increase in market value is a REAL data error. The rollover transaction rolls over the WRONG figure to the tune of over $300k. So whilst I agree that "there is no reason why Commsec records would show different amounts to others" the fact is - this IS happening. The root of the problem seems to be that MySF is treating the cost of these assets as zero.
With regard to 2), you may have to do a rollover on the file to see that it is a REAL rollover problem - but I guess the difference does show up on the unrolled over file if I compare the "Asset Listing" or "Asset Summary" reports, which correctly show the cost of all the shares purchased, with the "Change in Market Value" report which shows the correct cost under start value EXCEPT for the problem shares where the start value is shown as zero.
Neil H.
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MySF Administrator
Group: Administrators
Last Login: 17/05/2010 6:31:15 PM
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Hi,
We have some more information in response to your post.
The profit and loss report does show the correct totals for income, non-assessable income and non-assessable expense on the first page of the report. However, on the second page it shows the incorrect breakdown of non assessable income and expenses. In the case of your fund the list of non-assessable income duplicates the items from the income list on the first page, but these duplicates are not included in the total. Therefore the numbers on the first page, together with the tax calculations are correct.
We will check what has led to this incorrect listing of non-assessable income and expenses and fix it through an update.
To find what had caused the other reported problem (some assets showing zero start values in the change in market value report) we traced through each asset and checked all transactions used to record purchases. For some reason one of the pieces of information was not assigned for some of these assets. There is now a process that will run when the fund is opened after the next update which will assign this additional data so that the reports are shown correctly. We have not been able to replicate this error and no other user has reported anything similar so I am not able to comment on the cause of the problem.
Regards,
MySF
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Master Member
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OK, so if I understand you correctly:
For the first problem, I need to wait for the update before I can print out a correct profit and loss report.
For the second problem, I will need to wait for the update before performing my end of year rollover - otherwise the wrong increase in asset value data will be rolled over.
After I get the next update, the first run will run an additional process which will assign the purchase data correctly, after which the cost will be shown correctly and so the increase in asset values will be calculated correctly and so (assuming the update doesn't introduce any new problems) the year end rollover should all be calculated and processed correctly.
At this point I should actually be able to produce end of year reports which are correct.
So, unless this update is released in the next day or so, I now have to close out the accounts and produce the year end reports manually.
When will this update be released?
Neil H.
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Master Member
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Also, to just correct the first para of your last response, ie:
"The profit and loss report does show the correct totals for income, non-assessable income and non-assessable expense on the first page of the report. However, on the second page it shows the incorrect breakdown of non assessable income and expenses. In the case of your fund the list of non-assessable income duplicates the items from the income list on the first page, but these duplicates are not included in the total. Therefore the numbers on the first page, together with the tax calculations are correct."
- On the first page the income, expense and tax calcs are, indeed correct.
- Rather than a "correct total" there is actually no non-assessible expense item shown on page 1 - this isn't a problem as the total is zero and so there is nothing to report in this category (in fact from checking other non-problematic P&Ls with no non-deductible expenses to report this whole section should be omitted from page 2 also - and probably would be if it weren't for the double-listing problem).
- The non-assessible income total is NOT correct as it includes the WRONG value for the increase in market values. (It is true that the duplicate transactions are not included in the total).
Neil H.
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Master Member
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I am manually correcting the MySF reports and I now find another error.
Again on the profit & loss (after rollover version) page 1
All correct to get taxable income, tax calc correct and franking rebate correctly applied to give correct Total tax payable.
Next line, "Profit after tax and rebates" actually gives profit after full (unrebated) tax before the franking rebate is applied.
ie. the figure for "Profit after tax and rebates" is given as (taxable income - total provision for tax) whereas it should be (taxable income - total tax payable).
In other words the "Profit after tax and rebates" is understated by an amount equal to "rebates" (in my case just franking credits).
Will this problem also be fixed with the update.
Neil H.
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Master Member
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Sorry, ignore the last post re "Profit after tax and rebates" - I was rushing & got my wires crossed on that one!
Neil H.
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